>> So, undergrad was here at Rutgers.
Got here in 1975, graduated in
'79, industrial engineering.
So, I really -- back in high school, I wanted to
be an architect, but I wasn't meticulous enough,
nor -- my handwriting wasn't
good enough to be an architect.
Nowadays maybe I would have been.
But engineering was solving problems.
"Okay. I can handle that.
I like solving problems," in hindsight,
yes, I do like solving problems.
But it's technical.
If you're able to become an
engineer, I'd strongly advise it.
Not everybody has the way to think like
an engineer needs to think and be able
to absorb the kinds of things that you need
to absorb to be able to be an engineer.
So, it was -- the industrial engineering
part is a more broad kind of discipline
than the other kinds of engineering,
which is what I wanted.
I wanted to be able to -- it
had a business-y element to it.
It had an efficiency element to it.
It had an economics element to it.
A slightly technical element to it.
So, I figured it was a broad discipline.
So, that was a good foundation to move on from.
From there, I worked at a Navy
laboratory for a couple years.
But while I was at the Navy laboratory, I took
graduate work at Johns Hopkins University.
So, I was computer science.
Graduated in about '83, I
guess, with computer science.
And back then, computer science was more
fundamental and rudimentary than it is now.
But those two degrees -- the engineering
degree as an undergrad and computer science
as a graduate -- that's helped a lot in,
just again, gaining some level of respect,
and then recognizing that you've been able to go
through these disciplines
at the level that they were.